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Jerami

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"...in fact even, and the media doesn't want you to know this, They don't!... I'm not going to name names but, I've used the biggest word, well, some are saying it's biggah but, maybe... I don't know... there was a biggah word in some turdhole country but, they're not even there any more.... no seriously. I'm not joking... the big-gest word-duh in the history of the presidency. But, they won't tell you that. I mean, look at 'em. No class. No class bums. I mean, I'm not going to say that but...you know...some people have said it. There I've said it. :p"
 
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I remember a long time ago talking about how a lot of people were in for a rude awakening once these special counsel cases are in actual courtrooms where bullshit walks. I think today was a pretty nice taste of that.

Mike Flynn had been doing everything right post-indictment up until just before his sentencing when his lawyers decided to try to sprinkle in some FOX News. It was great to see him get put back under oath by the judge and confirm the obvious, which is that he's a grown ass man that committed serious crimes, doesn't need to be told that lying to the FBI is a crime, and wasn't tricked or trapped into anything.

You don't get to bring your alternate universe to court.
 

ChristopherASA

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"...in fact even, and the media doesn't want you to know this, They don't!... I'm not going to name names but, I've used the biggest word, well, some are saying it's biggah but, maybe... I don't know... there was a biggah word in some turdhole country but, they're not even there any more.... no seriously. I'm not joking... the big-gest word-duh in the history of the presidency. But, the won't tell you that. I mean, look at 'em. No class. No class bums. I mean, I'm not going to say that but...you know...some people have said it. There I've said it. :p"
You could be his speech writer. No words over 10 letters long, tho. :)
 

jan

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while i figure there's a motive somewhere behind everything he does ... i can't argue with this .
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1075928185630535686
I disagree (in part). It's easy to be a backseat driver. We only know a small part of the story. Mattis has had a storied career and is well respected. I give him more credit that to just look from the outside and judge this one. Her snipes are (imho) the snipes and criticisms of the young.

Perhaps he could have done more. I don't know. I'm willing to think that what he did - in this moment - represents not only his best - but probably the best that anyone could do. And even if it wasn't, I'm not willing to say that until we know more (like, from a historical perspective - years down the line, perhaps - more).
 

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I disagree (in part). It's easy to be a backseat driver. We only know a small part of the story. Mattis has had a storied career and is well respected. I give him more credit that to just look from the outside and judge this one. Her snipes are (imho) the snipes and criticisms of the young.

Perhaps he could have done more. I don't know. I'm willing to think that what he did - in this moment - represents not only his best - but probably the best that anyone could do. And even if it wasn't, I'm not willing to say that until we know more (like, from a historical perspective - years down the line, perhaps - more).
Perhaps background of what happens in the middle east is needed to understand. Anything that brings troops home and stops the killing could be worth it. Problem is what are they coming back for? Training for another launch of war/battle? Time will tell. Yemen is dying. Iranians are suffering due to sanctions. Some might say those are needed? Well, maybe that someone never had to watch a husband whose money was cut off for school because of sanctions. It's debilitating and humiliating. Not a good thing for anyone nevermind a proud Kurdish Persian. Now more is being cut off than money. Persians need medical help because their medicines are being cut off. So yes, I can understand why a person would feel the way this one does.
 

jan

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Perhaps background of what happens in the middle east is needed to understand. Anything that brings troops home and stops the killing could be worth it. Problem is what are they coming back for? Training for another launch of war/battle? Time will tell. Yemen is dying. Iranians are suffering due to sanctions. Some might say those are needed? Well, maybe that someone never had to watch a husband whose money was cut off for school because of sanctions. It's debilitating and humiliating. Not a good thing for anyone nevermind a proud Kurdish Persian. Now more is being cut off than money. Persians need medical help because their medicines are being cut off. So yes, I can understand why a person would feel the way this one does.
You don't leave someone alone on the battlefield. Leaving is one thing. Endangering our allies, those we promised to support - is another.
 

jklmnop

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while i figure there's a motive somewhere behind everything he does ... i can't argue with this .
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1075928185630535686
I disagree (in part). It's easy to be a backseat driver. We only know a small part of the story. Mattis has had a storied career and is well respected. I give him more credit that to just look from the outside and judge this one. Her snipes are (imho) the snipes and criticisms of the young.

Perhaps he could have done more. I don't know. I'm willing to think that what he did - in this moment - represents not only his best - but probably the best that anyone could do. And even if it wasn't, I'm not willing to say that until we know more (like, from a historical perspective - years down the line, perhaps - more).
Why can't it be both, and that's okay, too? Mattis was career military, and he took a principled stand for our country and our allies yesterday, but whatever history makes of his legacy, it will still be tarnished just by his being a member of this administration and looking the other way on other things. The GOP will be rightly tarnished with it, as Republicans have gleefully guided Trump and this country to the precipice of authoritarianism with one hand over their eyes and the other hand in Uncle Sam's pocket.

And yet, this is a genuinely scary development. For example, here's a nuclear weapons expert on it. But if cowardly Republicans like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse wake up to their power finally because it is a Big Fucking Deal that the Secretary of Defense quit in protest, that's fine. I am not holding my breath, because they and 95% of Republicans currently in office are SPINELESS FUCKING COWARDS, but fine. Start now. We won't forget. Ohhhh no we will not forget their craven behavior the last two years. But we are confronting corruption and avarice and negligence and bad faith in our government the likes of which no American has seen in his or her lifetime at this point. We are finishing out a week(!) in which a federal judge (who has read unredacted Mueller filings) called out a former national security adviser as possibly treasonous. We've witnessed changes in foreign policy made by tweet(!) that might as well have been accompanied with a Putin laughing gif. The office of the AG is being subjugated by a guy making up his own ethics rules and another guy who took it upon himself to attack the Mueller investigation months ago. (new!) The Treasury Department is compromised.

Oh, and the government is shutting down because Trump is a toddler, who lied to his supporters, who lies to everyone, who faces impeachment or worse unless he stays in this job he clearly didn't want and can't do serving a country he could give fuck all about. Who will try to stay in that job long enough and/or install loyal toadies in OUR government long enough to keep him and his family out of prison.

In light of that, can't Mattis' resignation be both too late and too soon?

We are so fucked. /me eats pie for breakfast
 
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jan

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Why can't it be both, and that's okay, too? Mattis was career military, and he took a principled stand for our country and our allies yesterday, but whatever history makes of his legacy, it will still be tarnished just by his being a member of this administration and looking the other way on other things. The GOP will be rightly tarnished with it, as Republicans have gleefully guided Trump and this country to the precipice of authoritarianism with one hand over their eyes and the other hand in Uncle Sam's pocket.

And yet, this is a genuinely scary development. For example, here's a nuclear weapons expert on it. But if cowardly Republicans like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse wake up to their power finally because it is a Big Fucking Deal that the Secretary of Defense quit in protest, that's fine. I am not holding my breath, because they and 95% of Republicans currently in office are SPINELESS FUCKING COWARDS, but fine. Start now. We won't forget. Ohhhh no we will not forget their craven behavior the last two years. But we are confronting corruption and avarice and negligence and bad faith in our government the likes of which no American has seen in his or her lifetime at this point. We are finishing out a week(!) in which a federal judge (who has read unredacted Mueller filings) called out a former national security adviser as possibly treasonous. We've witnessed changes in foreign policy made by tweet(!) that might as well have been accompanied with a Putin laughing gif. The office of the AG is being subjugated by a guy making up his own ethics rules and another guy who took it upon himself to attack the Mueller investigation months ago. (new!) The Treasury Department is compromised.

Oh, and the government is shutting down because Trump is a toddler, who lied to his supporters, who lies to everyone, who faces impeachment or worse unless he stays in this job he clearly didn't want and can't do serving a country he could give fuck all about. Who will try to stay in that job long enough and/or install loyal toadies in OUR government long enough to keep him and his family out of prison.

In light of that, can't Mattis' resignation be both too late and too soon?

We are so fucked. /me eats pie for breakfast
It might be both - I just think we don't know what happened behind the scenes. He has slow rolled a lot of bad policies over the months.

I also remember George Bush Sr leaving hastily - and the allies that were on the ground were murdered.

At the very least, Mattis seems to be angry at the process of leaving - you do it thoughtfully. At the most - of course, he is working for an idiot who aided our enemies and....well, you and I agree on all of the rest.

I just hate when people judge from the outside. It's easy to lob criticisms. We don't know how much that man did by remaining in the room. I'm willing to wait to hear the full story -
 
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