Healthcare

Are you in favor of some form of a national healthcare system


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DCI

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That op-ed in the OP is basically just a nicely packaged bundle of old talking points that sound reasonable but don't actually map onto reality. American health care is simply too expensive for a large portion of the population to afford without massive financial assistance. Savings accounts and high risk pools don't do much of anything to change that. Either heath care costs need to come down dramatically, or high earners need to foot a huge bill, or tens of millions of people need to not have health care.

American doctors are overpaid. American health care administrators are overpaid. American pharmaceutical companies are massively overpaid. American private insurance companies make a killing doing nothing other than what we could do ourselves. Americans pay more than anyone for health care but our outcomes are terrible because we're getting robbed in every phase of the system.

Free market magic is pretty cool where applicable, but it obviously doesn't apply to a lot of aspects of our health care system and it's ridiculous that people talk about these things like they are the same as electronics or clothes. Basic care in the US might be better if people paid out of pocket for it, if able, since it's the type of thing that's widely available as well as not being very time sensitive. Emergency care choices, on the other hand, are determined almost entirely be geography. If someone accidentally blows their fingers apart on the 4th of July, they're not going to drive to the next town for friendlier service and a 10% discount.

Most aspects of our health care system never have seen much competition driven consumer benefit, which is quite evident by how much things cost. I'm sure there probably are some areas where we could change that, but none of these proposals do anything like that, even though they claim to. No amount of insurance companies added to the market changes the cost of health care and no reorganization of insurance packages qualifies as some sort of product innovation. It's fucking insurance.


Fwiw, I still don't think this plan is going anywhere. It never seemed feasible to begin with, and what little information is coming out now indicates that Republicans might just be trying to fail on this as gracefully as possible. Obviously that shouldn't be taken for granted though.
 

ChristopherASA

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Find me a country with socialized healthcare where the people say it is bad.

I'll check back later and see if you had any luck.
Britain. You can' t listen to Prime Minister's Time without hearing about long waiting lines for fairly simple procedures, yada yada yada. (For further on this we need some input from lil queen trashmouth @lil queen trashmouth, a defender of that system.)

I gather that Canada has an effective and effective system.

And, aside from some recent probs due to a huge influx of new patients, the VHA system can be outstanding. They partner with Kaiser--who has an excellent system--on a regular and frequent basis.
 

ChristopherASA

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That op-ed in the OP is basically just a nicely packaged bundle of old talking points that sound reasonable but don't actually map onto reality. American health care is simply too expensive for a large portion of the population to afford without massive financial assistance. Savings accounts and high risk pools don't do much of anything to change that. Either heath care costs need to come down dramatically, or high earners need to foot a huge bill, or tens of millions of people need to not have health care.

American doctors are overpaid. American health care administrators are overpaid. American pharmaceutical companies are massively overpaid. American private insurance companies make a killing doing nothing other than what we could do ourselves. Americans pay more than anyone for health care but our outcomes are terrible because we're getting robbed in every phase of the system.

Free market magic is pretty cool where applicable, but it obviously doesn't apply to a lot of aspects of our health care system and it's ridiculous that people talk about these things like they are the same as electronics or clothes. Basic care in the US might be better if people paid out of pocket for it, if able, since it's the type of thing that's widely available as well as not being very time sensitive. Emergency care choices, on the other hand, are determined almost entirely be geography. If someone accidentally blows their fingers apart on the 4th of July, they're not going to drive to the next town for friendlier service and a 10% discount.

Most aspects of our health care system never have seen much competition driven consumer benefit, which is quite evident by how much things cost. I'm sure there probably are some areas where we could change that, but none of these proposals do anything like that, even though they claim to. No amount of insurance companies added to the market changes the cost of health care and no reorganization of insurance packages qualifies as some sort of product innovation. It's fucking insurance.


Fwiw, I still don't think this plan is going anywhere. It never seemed feasible to begin with, and what little information is coming out now indicates that Republicans might just be trying to fail on this as gracefully as possible. Obviously that shouldn't be taken for granted though.
I posted the op-ed for the sole purpose of priming a conversation. ... And to recognize that huge information bubble about the 5% of system users who accounted for so much of the total cost.

Happy to have any of your comments, DCI @DCI: I know you to be a ... judicious thinker.
 
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lil queen trashmouth

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Britain. You can' t listen to Prime Minister's Time without hearing about long waiting lines for fairly simple procedures, yada yada yada. (For further on this we need some input from lil queen trashmouth @lil queen trashmouth, a defender of that system.)
False. I have never, ever met anyone who wants to switch from socialized healthcare/the NHS to anything different. 2 questions and a consideration re: Prime Minister's Question Time

1. What is the complaint about? Is it about increased waits for procedures, or difficulty getting appointments, or just generally a complaint that something is not as easy/quick/efficient as it used to be? That's not a complaint about the NHS - that's a complaint about the slashed funding for the NHS. I've noticed those on the right are extremely quick to point out how long it takes to get any kind of treatment through socialized medicine, and this is true in one circumstance: when it is poorly funded. I never waited an insane amount of time for anything - I was a phenomenally injurious child and received extensive mental health care as a teenager. I was admitted to an inpatient ward for my eating disorder the same day I was assessed. My mother received therapy alongside my treatment to ensure the least possible chance I would end up back there. This is all a very long-winded way of saying I literally cannot remember being in any kind of discomfort, physical or mental, due to waiting.

2. Who is the complaint to? I will eat my hat and donate my PE if the complaint about the NHS is directed at a Labour politician, eg. Jeremy Corbyn or a local council equivalent. I can almost guarantee the grumble is being directed at a Conservative/Tory politician, because they are the only ones who have been hellbent since shortly before I left the UK (2013) on selling of bits of the NHS until there's nothing left of it. Brexit is a great example - Tories overwhelmingly said "let's leave the EU! We could* put that extra money we send them into the NHS!" *could, we are not going to. This is the number 1 reason why Brexit was voted for, and no-one wants to go ahead with it since this all came out as bullshit. I'm not kidding.

3. Bear in mind you're watching a TV program, pre-filtered for questions, and those questions are pre-picked depending on their relevancy to current politics, or potential for an argument between politicians, or yada yada yada. If I went to every single Question Time for the rest of my life my viewpoint of "the NHS is wonderful, stop defunding it" is so boring and commonplace it would never appear on TV.

I gather that Canada has an effective and effective system.
I'm not knowledgeable about Canada's system and someone please correct me, but as far as I know the main differences are that dental isn't included and you have to pay more for prescriptions.

That was long and I'm a lil sleep-deprived - please shout if there's anything confusing or just straight up wrong :)
 
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Kathryn

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I support single payer but honestly until healthcare costs are regulated no plan will be successful.
 

lil queen trashmouth

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NHS holds on to top spot in healthcare survey
Commonwealth Fund analysis of healthcare systems in 11 nations finds NHS is the best, safest and most affordable
The NHS has been judged the best, safest and most affordable healthcare system out of 11 countries analysed and ranked by experts from the influential Commonwealth Fund health thinktank.

It is the second time in a row that the study, which is undertaken every three years, has found the UK to have the highest-rated health system.

The US was again judged to be the worst system, despite investing far more money than the other countries. It spends 5.2 percentage points more of its GDP on health than France, which invests the second largest amount (11.4%).